BOILER ROOM
September 11: The Day That Broke Reality
September 11, 2026

Host: Bryan "Hesher" McClain
Guest: Adam "Ruckus" Clark

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Can you dig it? Can you dig it? Ladies. Gentlemen. Friends. Foes. Lurkers. Regulars. GMO people. Organic people. Willow. Inbound. Wide. Full. Twenty five years ago today, the world changed. That's one of those phrases we've heard so many times that it's almost become meaningless. September the eleventh changed everything. But for me, nine eleven didn't just change America. It eventually changed the way I looked at information itself. Because like everybody else. I watched what happened. I watched the towers fall. I watched the Pentagon burning. I watched the endless television coverage. And then I watched what came after. Afghanistan, Iraq, weapons of mass destruction, the Patriot Act. the Department of Homeland Security, the surveillance state, the war on terror. And then some years later, I started going back. I started reading, watching, comparing accounts, looking at photographs, looking at testimony, looking at engineering arguments looking at government reports looking at the people challenging those reports and before long i was way down the nine eleven research rabbit hole I was looking at everything A.E.

nine eleven truth was doing. I was looking at all of the furious speculation and analysis of building seven and the other structures that disappeared that day. the things happening around them uh looking at the nist report you know thinking uh what's the deal some people saying control demolition some people saying exotic technology we had dr judy wood with her book where did the towers go compelling explanations competing evidence And eventually competing factions of people who supposedly all agreed that the official explanation deserves scrutiny. And I think that's probably where something changed for me because eventually I became almost as interested in how people argued about nine, as I was in the arguments themselves, you know, who gets called credible, who gets called kooky and crazy. Who decides which questions are acceptable? Why does one piece of evidence get amplified while another disappears?

What happens when researchers become personally invested in a hypothesis? What happens when a movement that's supposed to be questioning authority creates authorities of its own? So this was a bit of a catalyzing thing. I learned about propaganda, agitprop, gatekeeping, misdirection, zone flooding, false binaries, information warfare, and perhaps the most important lesson of all, questioning an official story doesn't automatically make an alternative story true. That lesson followed me out of the nine-eleven rabbit hole. By the way, rabbit hole, we didn't have social media back in the time I'm talking about, not like we do now, not social media rabbit holes. We're reading books, we're interviewing people, we're listening to people being interviewed. But these same lessons followed me out of that rabbit hole. I started applying that same skepticism to the news. we're looking at land rights disputes um anything to geopolitics and war reporting to the endless parade of mass shootings that we eventually started calling the daily shooter program here at alternate current radio along with our colleagues at twenty first century wire uh moving on to covid to culture wars to censorship to surveillance to technocracy to the algorithm that increasingly decides what information we're even allowed to encounter anymore.

And somewhere along that road came alternate current radio, where we are here today and now, and eventually this show, The Boiler Room. So tonight isn't about me sitting here telling you that after twenty five years, I've finally solved September eleventh. Guess what? I haven't. And I'm probably more suspicious of anybody who claims they have than I was fifteen years ago. Tonight's kind of about something else. It's about what nine eleven taught us about evidence, authority, propaganda and the manufacture of reality. Because in two thousand one hundreds of millions of people watched essentially the same event on television. Twenty five years later, we live inside. Personalized information environments where two people sitting next to each other can experience completely different versions of reality. And yet here we are again. Still arguing about what happened, still discovering documents, still fighting over evidence, still watching governments invoke September eleventh to justify what comes next.

So maybe the question tonight isn't simply what really happened on September eleventh. Maybe another question is just as important. What happened to us afterward? And twenty-five years later, did we learn how propaganda works? Or did propaganda learn how we work? welcome to the boiler room i'm brian mclean call sign hasher thanks for joining us tonight we're streaming out live on x on youtube we're trying out this mars double stream thingy on youtube so hopefully we got uh two accounts rolling or two streams rolling over there at the youtubes you guys in the chat let me know if that's working out and if you're picking it up in the uh celly phone portrait mode for the first time, drop us a chat. Let us know. We're testing that out tonight. Yeah, find us at AlternateCurrentRadio.com. Oh, we're also out there on Rumble tonight. What's up, Rumble? AlternateCurrentRadio.com is the website. And of course, you can follow me on X if you want.

I'm at Hesher Media. We're broadcasting on X tonight as well. If the vertical streaming thing works well, I'll see if I can't expand out to both X and Rumble. But YouTube, you're our guinea pig tonight. So follow us on the web. There's the website on screen there, AlternateCurrentRadio.com. And tonight, we've got an interesting show lined up, kind of going to talk about the day that broke reality. It didn't simply change American foreign policy. changed the country's relationship with government, media, security, surveillance, and information. So, and like I said in the lead-in there, for many of us, it also became the event that taught us to question how narratives are constructed. So, let me bring the ruckus aboard here. There is a ruckus among us tonight, and he's joining us right now. What's up, ruckus? Welcome back to the Boiler Room. Howdy. Man, that was a fantastic opening, sir. And as usual, this is why I love hanging out with you fine folks, and I'm proud to be a part of this.

thing that we got going on here because i agree with you a hundred and ten no a thousand percent i was experiencing a little bit of exactly what you were saying today but i was having trouble struggling for some reason to express it as eloquently as you did so i'm glad you did that that was fantastic so the next time i run into what i've been running into the past few days concerning this i'm just going to point them to your opening monologue for today's program and thanks for having me um this also reminds me why y'all have seen me and hear me praising the likes of one milton william cooper who was of course the only person next to benjamin netanyahu of course who was able to predict uh what happened uh that fateful day so uh when i say read everything listen to everybody but don't believe anything unless you can prove it for yourself with your own research and it's very fun and interesting when you hang around a bunch of other people who proclaim to believe such a thing or something similar to that and yet jump at you when you mention certain people's names or ideas that don't necessarily fit into their uh select narrative and i'm like well wait a minute how does that make you any different or better than the mainstream i'm confused i thought we were allowed to have discussions here and conversations about things.

But it appears that no matter what it is, no matter what level of the layer or conspiracy theory or what your flavor of the candy is, what color your pill is, how far down the rabbit hole you are, there's always room for disagreement. And as long as we can all agree that we were not told the truth on that day and that by not understanding that truth, getting to the bottom of it and being able to root out the individuals, the organizations, and or whoever whatever caused that uh we're never gonna stop what the ultimate result of that has been which are endless wars an endless surveillance state and all the things uh well maybe we wouldn't have we wouldn't even be here now would we have sure we'd probably be enjoying our lives right but anyways um yeah i hope that all makes sense Yeah, yeah. I know it does, and I'm sure it resonates with plenty of people out there watching. You know, I was like, this year, it's kind of crazy.

It seems like there have been a lot of years. And I was also looking at last year. It looks like last year, Boiler Room was either done I don't know. Last year, it looks like we did a boiler room on September eleventh of twenty twenty five. And it just so happened that this year it falls on a Friday night as well. So I thought that was kind of a weird synchronicity. I'm like, wow, two years in a row. Nine eleven is on boiler room night. um well i will point out that last year the uh the nine eleven news was seriously overshadowed by another tragic event that took place the day before which we are now at the one year mark of that thing so you know yeah yeah the whole charlie kirk incident happened september tenth of last year and uh honestly that may have been all we talked about on that show i don't know i'd have to go back and listen to it But, you know, over the years, in fact, I think you're right.

I think the only reference to nine eleven anything might have been in the graphic that I made, which actually made no sense when you watch the show. You're like, what? It was a nine eleven. So that counts. Yeah, that definitely was the breaking news of the day last year. It's like most years. So last year is kind of an anomaly. But most years, I think. And I could go back through the Boiler Room archives on every week of September. And probably figure out what we talked about that year. But anyway, most of those years, there wasn't a whole lot of stuff coming out. There was definitely not much coming out of the mainstream media about it. You'd see your never forgets and all that kind of stuff. But really, the fevered pitch that we used to have in the nine eleven opposition research wave of the internet like that we had back in in particularly the uh twenty tens you know going like between twenty two thousand eleven and two thousand fifteen or so something like that was really a hot time for the topic and i don't know if that was just a function uh and that was before the algorithms were steering everything so you know it felt pretty organic um But that was all that may have also been a function of the factions of eight and eleven truth arguing with the Dr.

Judy Wood people and various other new people that came out and pointed different directions or pointed out different things. There was a lot of. clickiness I guess about it at the time but there was always new stuff coming out and this is the time period when James Corbett put out his famous nine eleven mini documentary and many other people did their you know did their thing put out books there was constant speaking tours by Richard Gage and those guys at AE Architects and Engineers for nine eleven truth and you know drama happening between different camps and it was like It was almost fun in those times because we weren't so saturated with just constant, you know, like most people were still kind of asleep at the wheel about the level of propaganda that they were under. So it was a very intellectual and invested crowd on all sides, you know, who were... And many of us that went through that rabbit hole and that ringer really felt like this could be it, you know, this could be the, the event that we can, you know, public sleuth our way into and, and really start peeling the onion layers back of corruption in, in DC and geopolitically and in the banking sector and in the intelligence sector, the political sector, like it really was sort of a, you know what I mean?

It was like a, uh, many, many people's minds. It was the thing. It was the topic that if we could crack it, you know what I mean? It was like the JFK of our time, uh, But if we could make it not go sixty years before we're eking information out slowly. But over the years after, like, twenty fifteen, it felt like for the next, you know, nine years or so, it was just kind of dead, you know, just kind of dead. You didn't see a lot of that was algorithmic suppression, I think. And a lot of the people that had done that original work had been kicked off of YouTube and other places. for various things. That was when the banhammer was pretty hard. But this year is a trip, man. There's all this mainstream media stuff out. There's new stories out. There's new documents out. Some of our old favorites, like the aforementioned James Corbett and others have produced decent videos and new updates and stuff like that.

uh james corbett put one out this uh just in the last day or two maybe this morning called follow the money he was talking about following the money that was uh interesting to watch i'm pretty sure without having to confirm this i'm going to go ahead and say this go out on a limb i think that was his virtual presentation for the turning the tide event which was being emceed by our friend and colleague who literally as fate would have it because of the events in that eleven his entire destiny and his career was launched off of this jason bermas you know so um yeah so yeah good stuff i mean and and then you look at somebody also like luke rudowski and look where that's taken him we are change you know like so a lot of good oh you just dropped for some reason there man i lost you ruckus Can you guys hear him in the chat? Let me know if you guys can hear Ruckus. I think he's probably going to have to reset there.

I'll take the mic while you reset there, Ruckus. But yes, Jason Bermas, of course. Big shout out to Jason. Yep, thanks, the audience. Thank you, audience. No sound there. Okay, he's working on it. We got him in the background fixing it. But yeah, big shout out to Jason Bermas. And I still don't hear you, man. It looks like you're talking, but I don't hear anything. Maybe pop out of the stream and then pop back in. Maybe you should type something in the thing. I have no idea what's going on. Oh, you're back. Sounds like you're back. Okay, so you can hear me behind the scenes. Okay, never mind. yeah i didn't pull you all the way off stage but uh oh okay i went full screen there sorry f-five to the rescue yeah no kidding i have no idea i don't know what i was saying i hope it wasn't important don't even know what my system would do if i f-fived in the middle of our street but i was just trying to mention that you know jason bermis and people like luke radowski we are changed you know came out of this stuff you know yeah um because a lot of a lot of came out of it in a way you know right a lot of relationships were made a lot of talent was built and i think what i said about just you know skepticism like it it there's so many other things attached to it and if you were in the the cool thing was at the time like if you were in the um I don't know that we called them podcasts back in twenty ten, but, you know, at that point where if you're listening to Internet streaming radio programs that are willing to touch this topic.

there's all kinds of other topics that come on, especially if it's a Monday to Friday show, you know, there's five episodes, like not every day is going to be about nine, but your favorite nine researcher was definitely running the circuit of these shows, you know? So it's like, you end up getting introduced to, um hosts and you know researchers and authors that are appearing on shows and stuff like that so a lot of networking happened around it that was probably um a really strong time for you know what would become sort of the you know quote unquote conspiracy research podcasting genre you know i think what what i said probably applies to a whole lot of people Oh, but I do want to address the other thing you said was that we had this feeling like we could really become the investigators and solve this thing and do – and no, we were wrong, right? We were so very wrong, unfortunately. We're not any closer to the actual truth, are we?

No, we were quite hopeful that we could un-JFK this thing that looked like it was going to be JFK, but it's definitely... Nor were we able to free ourselves from the shackle of the military-industrial complex forever wars. Nope. And the surveillance state, which is getting even effing worse as we speak. Yeah. But I mean, that's thanks to other major events that have happened since nine eleven that for some of us OGs in this space, I'm forever grateful that such a thing happened to help wake us up because we were able to be there at the right time. I saw someone in the chat mentioned Twenty One Wire's been around since twenty four. Like, you don't say. I think you and I were there when that happened, right? Yeah, that was the Your Alternate Current Radio form, too. We have a very close relationship to all of that, in case you didn't know. Yeah, we did. Thanks for pointing it out. Up close and personal in those times.

Those are interesting stories. We'll save for later. But then to witness like the next generation to have to go through the exact same thing with more recently, I would suggest, of course, what happened in twenty twenty. Actually, since nine eleven, I think one major event and we don't we don't talk about it very much on this show, but I think a lot of people would agree with me was what happened with the Wall Street thing, the Occupy Wall Street movement. Right. which got quickly co-opted, and there was a lot of potential there. But we all know what happened around that time. So we had a lot of hope and change, though, going on, so that was nice. We've got a lot of hope and change going on right now, too. Isn't that weird? And then since then, I think one of the biggest things, shocking to me, would be, of course, October seventh. Which very fascinating to me from the get-go was compared to from all sides, from a lot of sides for many different reasons.

Just everybody all saying it at once. This was another night, nine, eleven thing. And that meant something incredibly different. to different groups of people. Obviously, the mainstream crowd have a different idea in their head versus the people who are like referring. When we now, like I would suggest that most of us in this space, when we refer to something as a nine eleven, we're kind of implying what before nine eleven we would probably say this is kind of like a Pearl Harbor. That is the FF, the false flag, the ultimate Oh, there's no such thing. Wikipedia, put on your fact check above our YouTube video. They don't even have to do that anymore because, yeah, everybody knows this is a thing. This is how they do it. It's gotten so bad now, Hesher, that there's another version that we've been victims of for quite a while, especially in the geopolitical space where it's similar to a false flag where we have – the creation of groups that can then easily be pointed to and used as quote-unquote terrorists to then justify all of the things which is also very much related to what took place on nine eleven if i'm not mistaken and if you ask certain people but not not laura loomer we know what she thinks but yeah that like you know speaking of laura loomer by the way i was watching sam cheney's weaponized news tonight shout out to sam cheney and you're welcome sam because sam was muted i had to break into his show to let him know that he was muted it's not breaking in if i have the key by the way anyways um so but he flashed i don't think he even saw it but he flashed something from x one of the white house's official account things the white house on x or whatever And the top comment you could see on the right-hand side as he was talking about the news story was Laura Loomer.

And she was screaming at the White House, you're not even bothering to say what type of terrorists they were. And she was yelling at the White House because they wouldn't say that they were Muslim terrorists. I mean, what year is this, Hesher? Oh, my gosh, man. Yeah, it's crazy, dude. The amount of stuff coming at us, the amount of media coming at us is just bananas. So where were you when this happened, dude? What was Ruckus's life like on September eleventh of two thousand and one? I woke up for absolutely no reason after having an incredibly horrible, like, what are those dreams called when they're lucid? A lucid dream. I woke up violently ill. I had not drank anything the night before. I was not sick. I did not have a bug. But I woke up. threw up in the toilet my wife came in i was in albuquerque new mexico married at the time in an apartment in a bad neighborhood by the way it was not fun second floor um anyways so i was throwing up and my wife came in to check on me make sure i was okay and i was like yeah that was weird that came out of nowhere and she goes well when you have a chance you need to come into the living room and i came into the living room she had the news on and i watched live on the news as the second plane hit I did some estimating about the time that I had woken up and thrown up, and that would have been about the exact time that the first plane had hit.

So it was a very surreal experience for me in particular because I had no other explanation other than did I just have some sort of empathetic reaction to an incredible tragedy that I wasn't even aware of? I don't know. I had some very weird thoughts about the whole thing. And for a very long time, watching any of the footage, which very similar to the event that took place last year, was shown over and over and over and over and over again, was extremely terrifying, traumatic things to have to witness on television. I'm not going to lie. And some of the videos that the nine eleven truthers dug into and all of the stuff that you would see in the documentaries and the smoke, you swear you would watch that stuff. You'd be like, that looks like a devil's face. And there's a lot of very weird. weird stuff about that whole day and horrible feelings and it's just the whole thing just just something very off about it but that's where i was and i was completely not awakened to any conspiracies or theories or none of that stuff and um i i did the best thing that i could do which is what everybody else could do in order to fight back against those dirty terrorists so they don't win i lived my life and i went out and bought a cheap chinese made plastic american flag and put it on my car and drove around with it so that's where i was Oh, man.

I was working for the Navy school in Monterey, California. So my work site was basically a military base. It's a university, but there are officers there and learned doctors of all sorts. And it's, you know, it's, it's under the umbrella of what used to be what we used to call back in the day, folks, the department of defense. Do you remember those days? They weren't all that long ago, but, uh, I had, uh, I pretty much could, you know, show up at work whenever I wanted for that particular year, that particular season. And I was getting to work while I was getting ready to go to work. And I had the... I probably had DirecTV and a TiVo back in the day or something like that. I don't know, but I had the thing on... And much like you, I tuned in and many people tuned in to see the smoke coming off of Tower One. Was it Tower One that was hit first or Tower Two? I can't remember. But anyway, the first one that was hit, sealed smoke and stuff.

And I'm just sitting there like, whoa, this is crazy. How could a plane hit that? Like just trying to figure out like how that even happens or if this is a thing. and then saw the second one the broadcast of the second one hit and immediately was just like and i'm someone that's pretty desensitized much like you i think because of the stuff that we like to watch in our youth you know kind of I watched Faces of Death, Traces of Death, read all the gory novels I could find and watched all the gory movies I could find. But seeing in particular the people falling from the building, was the jumpers was scarring i remember feeling traumatized by that and having to look away and uh i checked my email and the base had been closed and i was told to stay home the whole population of the base was told to stay home I don't remember if it was just that day or if there was another day, but they closed the gates on that day.

And that meant I was just sitting home watching things unfold on the television. And wow. And to me, it was like I was brand new to that job. I'd only been there for a year or so. I was eight, eighteen months or something like that in the end of the gig and just graduated with my bachelor's degree in computer science. And I felt like and I had all these, you know, new faces and mentors around me and professors and, you know, people that had cool military careers and cool military backgrounds and you know i'm attending classes there uh along with officers and stuff like that so it was a trip you know to be surrounded by have my workplace be somewhere that's you know very that is military um and at that point it was like i'm like sort of like you you know i wasn't into conspiracy theories really i was more into other things um and it wasn't until like i think when i kind of started But, you know, I was always into weird stuff, like I always wanted to hear about cryptozoology and loved Art Bell and Dr.

Demento and all that stuff. And, you know, was pretty much front loaded for falling down this rabbit hole when I eventually did. But at the time, For me, it was like, wow, I'm glad I work here. I'm glad I work around people that are going to fix this. I'm glad I work around people that are going to respond to this. And I'm sure that they have our best interests in mind. You know what I mean? And that thought extended all the way up to the top ranks of the military, the US military at that point. It was like, all right, this is way above my pay grade, but I trust these guys are going to do it right. They're going to do the right thing. How'd that work out for us? I see somebody had mentioned, I was thinking that it reminded me of the only other time I'd experienced anything like that as far as witnessing a tragedy on television was the Shuttle Challenger disaster, which happened when I was about ten years old.

And I did watch that live on TV because I was in New Hampshire at the time. And we knew, technically knew, Krista McAuliffe because before she was a teacher at Concord High School, she was a student teacher assistant there. at Pittsfield High School. And that was my small, I mean, small, tiny town that I went to. Yeah, anyways. But yeah, my family knew her and everything. And so it's always weird to see all the conspiracy theories about all of that stuff and about her. And I'm just like, y'all are tripping. She was literally just a normal person, I promise you. You know, unless they're really, really good. I mean, the CIA brainwashing and all, maybe they slipped me and my family something. You never know. My dad was a dentist, and he was a Freemason, so don't believe a word I say, right, Hesher? Guilty by association, for sure. But it's a trip, you know, because the entire country experienced essentially the same media event simultaneously in a very different way than we did with what happened with Charlie Kirk a year ago.

You could say the same thing about that, but with that, it's like, oh, you're watching this clip from this guy on Blue Sky, or you saw this clip from this person on X, or you only watch Fox News, or you watched it exclusively on The View, or your friend held their phone in front of your face and showed it to you. There's all these different... Vectors that it's coming to you. But for nine, eleven, it was like you had cable TV and like rudimentary Internet. That was that was it. Like the Internet was I shouldn't say rudimentary Internet, but compared to the Internet environment that we're in now. It looked pretty rudimentary. Like if you were to take a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, I was watching Jason Bermas. He did a brief interview with Patrick Henningsen, and they showed it on the UK column today. And in there, Jason tells the story. It was really good about how he first was compiling all this information and how he got involved in the whole thing in the first place, and he was just doing – Using the old school technology stuff, you know, and it was just an amazing story because I mean, things are very different now as far as all of the technology is concerned.

And similarly, I was watching the old the infamous deleted Fox reports, the four part series they did about the Israeli connection. which mysteriously disappeared from their archive, and they had very weird stuff going on there. Anyways, but they were telling the story about – what's the name of that company, Ammodox or something like that? It was the one, Ameridox, the Israeli-owned company where it was basically taking the data and the information from your phone calls. But this was not like cell phones. We're talking like the old-school phones. switchboard operator phones in your house and shit and all of the data and the algorithms and they were talking about all that stuff back then and you're like wow this was like before the proliferation of the internet sure the internet was there this was way before social media way before it's all the stuff cell phones before palantir and i'm like but they were already able to do amazingly scary crazy like surveillance stuff back then and it's like wow can you imagine how it is now right yeah and it's like back then they took all that data and eventually and this is my suspicion eventually they built the enormous nsa data center in utah and they digitized all that they pumped all that in there And we've been like marveling at the scope and cost and scale and power and water usage of that monstrosity for the last twenty some years.

And that's probably all that thing holds. I bet it filled up with digital data real quick. And that's why maybe now we need all these data centers because it's just like they're capturing everything in real time. Like this is probably just being all these broadcasts we do are probably just being recorded in real time over there, sucked up by some kind of crawling web worm at night into the system there. You don't have to bother archiving it anywhere then, Hesher. If something happens, we'll just ask them for a copy, right? Right. Can we get our copies, please? This is why we need the ballroom, though. Right. Everything. Always a reason to need the ballroom. But yeah, we had the entire country experience the same views of this, the same media events simultaneously. And that was a trip. That was really weird. I can remember very few other times in my growing up to that point where it really felt that way.

And then there's the... I also recall this level of extraordinary uncertainty for a certain amount of hours. For the first hours, it was like, Like I said, my brain's just trying to wrap its head around, like, how? Who? How? What? They grounded all air flights for a while, right? Yeah, except for the bin Laden's flight out of the country, apparently. So that one was allowed. Already starting with the conspiracies. Oh, shoot. Sorry. Yeah. See, it was just too easy, right? It was just like a lot of this weird stuff. Yeah. It's just low-hanging. It's very hard to find anything from the initial reporting from the official story that's not fishy. It's almost like – in retrospect, it's almost like it was all done on purpose, like it was intended to be that way. Huh. Yeah. Very, very strange. A lot of – opposition researchers to the main narrative say something similar. And as Corbett pointed out in his video this morning from that virtual appearance, there is ample evidence that even people in the NIST and the nine eleven commission all pretty much say uh what's the deal with this like this there's some everything is not above board here you know why how is it that we come in to talk about it and you already have like an outline of the narrative written up for us before we even get started it's just insane and yes bin laden family here you go okay so so i'm not just blowing smoke here i'll show you the uh What the mainstream media had to say.

CBS News, September thirtieth, two thousand one bin Laden family evacuated. Two dozen members of Osama bin Laden's family were urgently evacuated from the United States in the first days following the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, according to the Saudi ambassador to Washington. so little things like that you know some some some good researchers out there colleagues of ours they save stuff like that wing them my way during the show so i got a receipt when i make a comment thank you for that um but yeah the uh They were even making memes. Corbett pointed out a meme that was made by somebody on the commission. I don't have it locked in my brain, but I will link James' video on tonight's show. They made fun of the whole thing and took the Warren commission report about the JFK assassination and trolled them with their own version of a pre-outlined version of that. Unreal. Absolutely unreal.

so yeah i mean but how much of a mockery of a mockery was the entire process i mean seriously and for what i have that i have that stupid thing too Got it right there. Yep, there it is. I mean this thing is – no joke. This thing is effing ridiculous. So you want to talk about fine print and nothing but like all the – they expect you to check all these sources that lead you absolutely nowhere, and it's like half of it's lies? I mean what an effing waste of time. When I saw that thing and James Corbett said he bought the thing and read it from cover to cover, I was like, oh, you poor dude. I know. I saw that. i was like cover to cover really i didn't have to get very far into it to realize i was not reading something serious and then of course somewhere else i have my the where did the towers go and that thing's quite exhaustive and huge too and that's hard cover and i wonder which one i would go for first if i wanted to kill something coming at me believe it or not it might actually be the paperback of the nine eleven commission report oh excuse me sorry the final report of the national commission on terrorist attacks upon the united states or whatever yeah right what a mouthful Absolutely ridiculous.

So we went from a few hours of uncertainty to... very quickly explanations and political narratives starting to form. Right. And this, this was interesting when it just became like all of a sudden, and you can go back and look at people that put together montages of the mass media, like doing little expose hits about Osama bin Laden and this and that. But man, they sure rolled that one out quickly, didn't they? Well, you know, he was ready to go as they might say. Yeah. He was all teed up. Right. Yeah. So this, you know, w we end up with very separate questions. What happened? Why did it happen? And what was subsequently done in its name and the, what happened in the, why did it happen? TBD, I guess. But what subsequently was done in its name? Wow, we've got quite the list, don't we? We went to Afghanistan. We went to bin Laden and Al Qaeda. The Taliban, there was an authorization for use of military force, right?

Never a war declared, right? Well, there was an ideological, political... Well, not just ideological and political, because they made the Patriot Act around it and made it very cemented into our country there. But yeah, the authorization for use of military force was what they got to invade Afghanistan and Iraq, right? The Patriot Act. That's when things started getting really wacky. It was like... we went from from zero to you know plaid speed on that one it was like the uh the event happened and then all of a sudden well we need a a document that strips certain people in certain conditions of their cost certain constitutional rights But it's not a nationality. It's not a group. It's not a political identity. It's just under the guise of the word terror, right? Yeah, I would suggest probably the biggest thing that came out of it, in case you missed it, happened on November twenty fifth of the following year, two thousand and two.

And President George W. Bush signed a little act which formed a little something, a little group. A little group within the government created to unify and coordinate various federal agencies in order to help protect the United States against all these dirty terrorists. You know which group I'm talking about, Hesher, right? The Department of Homeland Security. And wow, all of the subgroups from that down. Wow. Yeah, that's all thanks to what happened on nine eleven. Yep. And another major consolidation of power, one of the first consolidations of power was to take all the various most all the various three letter law enforcement agencies and intelligence agencies and stick them under one umbrella. one umbrella of the department of homeland security it was the largest one since they had created what was used to be called the department of defense way back in the forties but of course now they've changed the name of that too but yeah they had not done anything like this to this scale since like the mid to late forties i mean like And then not till two thousand and two.

I mean, that's pretty significant. Right. You would think, like, why hadn't we done that before? Well, maybe there might have been some pushback or maybe that wasn't a good idea. Maybe they you know, I mean, maybe there's a reason why we didn't just do this from the beginning. Right. I mean. Anyways, it's not like terrorism was a new threat or something, just like we invented it. Well, we probably did invent it, but I mean, it's like it wasn't new. I mean, you listen to some of the stuff that was going on in the seventies in particular. You just, you see what I'm saying? It's just, it's very strange that it just seems like, yes, they use this or planned this or coordinated this or took advantage of this. However you want to look at it to do something that otherwise probably the country would not be willing to do. Right. And then after that, and, and that's like, you know, there's something to be said for a separation of powers.

It's actually one of the things that's kind of fundamental to our government in the first place. Not that three letter agencies apply to that, but Hey, maybe they should have, maybe it was better when they did, you know, maybe it was better when they weren't all just under this one certain umbrella. Cause this certain umbrella has certainly cost us a lot in lives in tax dollars and losses of freedoms and mistakes in uh you know many people would say how many operations how many acts terrorism have they and their uh groups been able to actually stop or prevent since this creation pretty much the ones that they've they foment pretty much the ones that they go people into thinking they're gonna do um or actually do allow them to do Makes me feel safe. Yeah, right? Well, speaking of feeling safe, Ruckus, the next thing in the list is the formation of the TSA and permanent airport security infrastructure.

Wasn't that fun? Didn't that help out? How many terrorists have they caught? Well, according to the official record, last time I checked, it would be zero. But what do I know? Which is odd after all the stories that we've seen over the years with the shoe guy and the underwear guy and all these people they keep throwing out there. I do remember a large amount of pushback for a great deal number of years from the public against their – tendencies to to abuse their power, let's just say. But that's all seems to have taken a backseat thanks to another organization, which is an outgrowth of one of these groups here, of course, ICE. But I mean, until the ICE stuff, I mean, it was like almost every day. You remember every day you hear about all the horrible things that the TSA were doing to people. You know, it's so silly. Yeah, like you basically shed your constitutional rights when you walk into the airport these days, and that just is what it is.

And your mileage may vary on the qualifications of some of the employees there. sure sometimes the employees that you meet there who are groping you you might run into them later on and they become friends right yeah these things happen these things do happen hey you look familiar did you grope me at the airport oh what do you know it's good to see you it's a small world um and then we got the uh and this is a big one because this kind of is uh circling back to today with a lot of the things that we talk about and that is the expansion of domestic surveillance in the wake of nine eleven the expansion of domestic surveillance was a huge huge money ball that got winged out um and you know like that's when you started seeing what they liked to call back then fusion a fusion of local first responders and law enforcement with military with fema the ability for all these various things to work in tandem when before they all kind of did their own separate jobs had their own separate duties and many would argue especially people that have lived through floods and and fires in the last ten years or so would probably agree with me that yeah maybe it was better when uh there wasn't this too many cooks in the kitchen on that one um yeah and where are we now with uh expansion of domestic surveillance we're we're surrounded by flock cameras and we're surrounded by surveillance we're surrounded by artificial intelligence surveilling us we're Our own devices are surveilling us.

They have phones with cameras and microphones. Your home appliances have cameras and microphones in them. So yes, one might argue that that expansion of domestic surveillance has led to some of the worst or is leading to some of the worst assumptions about technocracy and smart cities and the whole digital utopia. I'm not interested. All right. Well, I'll add one more to that domestic surveillance because that is when also next in the pile was NSA. Ooh, the NSA and their warrantless surveillance. That's some of the information that we were talking about that we used to assume was pumped all the way to that big data center in Utah. back the nsa was like literally nobody had ever heard of it unless they were super nerdy geeks um or it started making pop culture or the um the lexicon uh became a household name if i'm not mistaken thanks to that series twenty four with keifer sutherland yep i think that was the first major fictional proprietary that actually was out and about like yeah that's that's the name of this group here and stuff you know otherwise it was like an inside joke it was the no such agency if i'm not mistaken right right who knew how big that whole thing turned out to be and you know and then that that introduces the phenomenon of the whistleblowers right Absolutely.

Yep. Then we get whistleblowers and then the doctrine changes within the government about whistleblowers. They start making policy around it. Tell people they have whistleblower protection. However, it works like A, B and C. Read the fine print. You know, your mileage will vary on that one, too. And next next little gift that we got from, you know, the post nine eleven era was Gitmo. we got Guantanamo Bay and we got all this propaganda about how great it was to send people to Guantanamo Bay even to this day people like Laura Loomer are still requesting that certain even Americans that she doesn't like and people like her don't like go to Guantanamo Bay for having different opinions differing opinions differing analyses and But yeah, they took people there and they captured them from their own countries and from within ours and in various places. And they took them there and they extracted information out of them via torture tactics.

I don't know what else to call them. I'm trying to not be salacious with my words on this, trying to be a little bit journalistic tonight. But by all accounts, the mass media and the whistleblowers will tell you that, yes, there's torture happening there. And a lot of the intel that was received about Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda, these kind of agencies, groups and peoples were obtained under extreme duress under extreme torture in Guantanamo, which unfortunately is not actually legal grounds for action. But, hey, it's great grounds for backing up narratives, creating narratives and that kind of thing. So, yeah, we got Gitmo, you know, our own little black bag torture center. And ironically, you know, it's supposed to have been shut down and the people in it currently were supposed to have been let out many of them years ago. And it's still there. It's still there. Whitney Webb's done some great talks on this in the past.

Also, ironically, it launched the career of Pete Hegseth. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. Gitmo gave us this guy, everybody. Oh, wait a minute. Sorry, that's not his usual uniform. I think his usual uniform is him shirtless showing off his awesome tattoos. But yes, now the head of the Department of War, but they still call him the Secretary of Defense. Wrap your head around that one. Kind of makes me wonder if all these name changes are actually permanent. I don't know. Well, the only permanent name changes are the ones that Trump does on the little map with his marker when he renames property across the globe. Don't you know? I heard he wants to rename your former state you lived in. Yes. Well, I think that was just a troll. I don't think he's serious about that one. But, I mean, that's what they're doing. It's like it's all trolls. It's just troll, troll, the one side, troll, and the other.

And, like, there's no serious conversation. I doubt there's even an actual war going on sometimes because it's like the one side gives us, like, cool rap music videos with fantastic-looking Lego videos made from AI, and the other side gives us the most ridiculous juvenile slop. and and it's just it's all rage bait and people it's like but i mean like what's going on where's the actual news and the reports and the body counts and i mean it's like what's going on here like is there even a war i'm so confused all i know is that the price of everything's going up and we assume it's because there's a war or something so it's just like i mean i don't even know what to believe anymore hasher it's so ridiculously crazy I am concerned, though, still to this day as to, you know, the genocide stuff and what's going on there. There seems to be a lot of evidence that supports that's going on. But this tit for tat over the oil and who owns and who controls the strain, I'm like, I don't know.

I'm not there. I can't even get a drone camera close enough to look myself if I wanted to. You know what I'm saying? Yep. It seems like if there's going to be a wag the dog situation, this seems like the best, easiest way to do it, to be honest with you. Both sides could literally be sitting there, hey, you want to trick everybody and make a shit ton of money? Yeah, how? Here's how. Here's the plan. Here we are. You never know. I don't know what to trust. And that's not me being stupid. It's because of all of the stuff that they've done to prove to me I can't trust them. right and the fact that they like uh they won't let journalists in there they won't let people in there they turn the internet off in places like this uh yeah good call there creative accidents they tortured people with britney spears songs could you imagine that's that's true actually allegedly humanity dude um yeah and uh also misty winston has done some great broadcasts about um guantanamo gitmo she's passionate about that so big shout out to her you should follow our colleague and friend misty um yes it turns out that luckily there was a handful of human beings on the planet who looked at what was going on and said well okay sure xyz we appreciate what you're saying there but these are still human beings and we probably should treat them we got to have some sort of rights for human beings in general don't you think and then you look at what's been going on in the Middle East these days, and it seems like I guess we just threw all that out the window again, right?

Yeah, certainly feels that way. So, yeah, you got Gitmo where extraordinary rendition and torture are happening. And then we move to Iraq, right? Weapons of mass destruction. This is just the gift that keeps on giving, my friends. So then we learned a lot about, at least when I looked back on it, you know, after nine eleven sent me looking backward. All of a sudden, it's like, well. Wait a minute. In the years afterward, when I started finally looking backwards more and examining all this, it was like, wait a minute. What about these weapons of mass destruction? That was what they used to get everybody's consent. That was how they coddled the public into thinking this was a good thing. Did they ever find them? No. Did we discover unequivocally that a lot of false narratives and propaganda were being used to sell the narrative? Yes. Yes, we did. But that doesn't mean anything, Hesher. No, it doesn't.

Quit jumping to conclusions. Yeah. Conspiracy theorist. Stop that. Let me check this out here real quick. Please disable blockers. Sorry, man. My filters are... I'm like George Bush Jr., man. I've got filters on internets. I can't see that link for some reason. I've got filters on internets. That's right. But anyway, the headline reads, Judge throws out key nine-eleven confession as tainted by torture. Prosecutors argued that statements by the defendant khalid shikha muhammad were crucial evidence for the eventual death penalty trial so there's an article up at new york times on that also in in late august of this year a u.s military judge dismissed a key fbi confession from alleged nine eleven mastermind khalid shalik muhammad after ruling that the statements were again tainted by his previous torture in CIA custody. So like recent rulings on stuff like this, this kind of stuff is still being litigated.

It's absolutely insane. totally crazy so yeah weapons of mass destruction and then you know at that point it just turned into the broader war on terror and we're into the the g watt days right we're into what led to be what twenty one years twenty years in afghanistan and then leave all our stuff there oh yeah we had a fantastic withdrawal after the close of all that that was that was quite the show i mean seriously after all of that i mean anyways yeah that one oh so that might have that might have been one of the biggest failures of the the previous administration technically right oh yeah yeah so after going through that whole list of what we got after this event This is rhetorical, I suppose, but how much of what Americans now consider normal was constructed in the psychological aftermath of September. Like, look at that list. That was the short list that we just went through right there.

And we didn't have any of that stuff before September. We didn't have that stuff. I mean, yeah, things weren't great. There was corruption, but look at that massive expansion right there. Twenty-five years ago. Only twenty-five years ago. There are an entire generation of human beings, productive, well-grown adults, I'm presuming, if such a thing exists in this world anymore, in this country, walking around now who have lived exclusively in this reality, we will call it, that you just described, post-Nine-Eleven. And that's fascinating and frightening and... I don't know how to feel about that. I can't experience it myself because, you know, I had my toes dipped into, you know, I witnessed different shifting things throughout my life and how much it is going to shift for them as they progress in their lives. You know what I mean? Like how much different is it going to be for their kids?

I hope they're having kids because the numbers suggest they might not be. I wonder if that's a side effect too, Hesher. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah who knows man that that yeah that's a great question that wraps into culture wars and pharmacological environment and so many things so by for me like i think was the year i saw a documentary called zeitgeist my uh my friend shout out to todd my friend todd brought that movie over to my house and we watched it and i was like i think it was in i believe it was in three parts and one part was about the us financial system so one part was kind of the creature from jekyll island Another part was to do with religious stuff and corruption inside of organized religion. And then there was... the nine eleven part i think was there a jfk one in there too i don't think so uh but anyway i remember watching uh that filmmaker's take on nine eleven and it was like my my mind kind of went into dissonance at that point it was like everything else registered you know the financial part was mind-blowing to me because i hadn't read creature from jekyll island at that time and it was like Very eye-opening, and I think that was what drew me into the film.

The religious part I found interesting, but I was already au fait on a lot of that. And then the nine-eleven part, I just kind of had to compartmentalize and shelf it. You know what I mean? It was like, no, I have a work life that is not conducive to me running around screaming that the news is wrong about this. So it was like, okay, I'm going to need more. But then around, oh, gosh, I don't know. I don't think I could get the timeline right. But somewhere around. Twenty ten, two thousand nine, I started listening to like Jeff Rance and Alex Jones and. You know, my mind started opening up a little bit and eventually people started coming into those shows talking about nine eleven and then, you know, saw Jason Burmese's loose change for the first time and the other things that Infowars had put out on it. And I was still just kind of like. know outside the mosh pit on that one and then that changed when i saw dr no it changed actually when i saw jesse ventura on alex jones talking about where do the towers go and i saw alex jones just completely turn white as a sheet and usher him off the stage as quickly as possible uh because it was like and that was kind of the inflection point at least for me and i think for a lot of people when it became ae nine eleven truth versus where did the towers go uh so so that was at that point i picked up where the towers go because i thought wow if alex jones doesn't want to talk about this i need to read it and uh tore through the book and then started tearing into any podcast that would have her on But you shouldn't trust her because she's probably rude or something.

Right. And right around this time is when Spore and I meet Ruckus. yep that's right this is correct and it was similar to you right around the i couldn't even pick the years but probably maybe even a little earlier in two thousand and six thanks to um somebody i knew who had turned started to turn me on to contrails chemtrails that was my first foray into that there was something very suspicious going on with the lines in the sky and so i was ready and primed for some interesting information which did involve some Curious questions about nine eleven, which did leave me. Actually, I think the first nine eleven trooper that I got into and was watching their stuff was Luke Radowski because he was the one who famously questioned about the building seven. You know what I mean? He harassed. Was it Silverstein? Who was it that he got? I believe it was. Yeah, he literally, yeah. And I think they like ushered him out of the room, didn't they?

Like they kicked him out of the conference or something like that. But yeah, and so I was like very intrigued by that because similar to you, I'm like, well, wait a minute. If there's something that somebody's saying that's reasonable and it's just like asking questions, why would we like, oh, that's not allowed. What's up with that? Like who says who? You know what I mean? Like that was very interesting to me and intriguing. And it had that bit of that, The Streisand effect, it kind of like – it reversed – it kind of makes you want to know more about it, which I guess in some instances might be dangerous if they do that to you on purpose. But it is what it is. And yeah, so I actually got into a lot of more political stuff for the first time ever and was paying attention to – I was listening to conservative news radio and podcasting and things like that, which then led me to Genesis Communications and Alex Jones and Police State and all the stuff.

And then, of course, hanging out with you guys and the Judy Wood thing. Same kind of thing. Yeah. jesse ventura alex jones that's a classic i i wish i could find that that clip that'd be oh yeah some of these are hits man like i think about my old bookmark list from back back in those days in the like between and oh man i i've i don't have those bookmarks anymore i bet so much of that is scrubbed and gone from the internet now but It was crazy. We had so many different vectors from which to view this and participate in it. And I think my first crazy nine eleven conspiracy theory video that I saw before any of the Jason Bermas related and popular thing. It was the one about the planes. That one really blew my effing mind. In plain sight, I think it was called. Was that before? I don't remember. Because there was a newer version of that, but there was an older, shorter, underground video version of that.

I'm pretty sure I'm right, of stuff that eventually turned into what became the documentary known today as In Plain Sight. So whatever it was that I watched back in the day was exclusively about the bizarre – what the F is going on with this plane. It doesn't even look like there's a real – it's not even a plane. What is going on here? And that prime being was ready for me to – I say prime, but I was ready. Some of the – in particular, the Judy Wood stuff later on was like, oh, okay, I can see how – because otherwise it's like – To believe the mainstream theory of these planes even being there and then to do what they had to do, you realize like how that's even worse than any other – because they would have to do all sorts of modifications to these things and harden them and they'd have to get the people off and then probably do horrible things. Like it's such a darker conspiracy theory to believe that they actually literally flew the planes into the building.

The things they would have to do, the amount of planning – It's even more disturbing than any other crazy conspiracy theory out there. So there's no way there's planes. But then this idea that they weren't even really planes and they were using some sort of CGI or holograms or messing with the film. And I'm like, oh, my God, I could see them doing that kind of thing. But why? You know, why? Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, looks like it's out there. I think this is the right one. I'll link that on the show page if anybody wants to check it out. But yeah, man, it's so crazy because it's like we had this whole ecosystem just blow up, especially at that time. Um, and there were questions surrounding so much of it because by then it was like, you know, people, it took a while for people to, you know, collect enough information, do enough journalism and, um, academic work to really start questioning it.

And I remember, uh, I don't know what year it was, but somewhere in the late two thousands, I was talking to. one of the guys I worked with about it and he's a smart guy. And I looked up to him. He taught me a lot of stuff, but he, I don't even think I brought it up. He brought it up and he was like disparaging people that don't believe the official narrative. And he told me that to paraphrase, he basically said popular science lined it out. That's all you need to know. was like okay cool you know it was like right on i guess people are just being silly you know and then years later a few years later when i started looking at it i was that rang in my head and i was like oh i got to go back and read that i went back and i read the popular science article and it was all about pancake theory coping it was all like trying to describe how all these buildings not just those two they're only referring to those two but you know tower one and tower two but how they could pancake under basically an office fire, a jet fuel fire.

And man, that was one of the first things that was debunked by almost every conspiracy researcher on the topic early on for me. I was like, oh, okay. So that was one of those moments where I was like, oh, propaganda can really sink in to very smart people. There it is. There it is. I love and miss the World Trade Center. This is an update to it, by the way. But yeah, if you do a search about this, you will find entire blogs and articles about this original article and the tearing apart of it. But yes, here's an update from Popular Science itself from last year, if I'm not mistaken. Or this might be this year. Hold on, let me check. This might be this year. Shoot, hold on. Sorry, guys. No, this was last year. That's what I thought. Yeah, they put this out last year. So... they they felt responsibility to go out there and debunk some of the myths of nine eleven twenty four years later using their original work okay guys hilarious Yeah.

So we had all these questions surrounding World Trade Center One, World Trade Center Two, World Trade Center Seven, the Pentagon, Flight ninety three, the NORAD response, the intelligence failures, the Saudi connections, the financing, the foreknowledge, the structural failures, the physical evidence and government investigations like that. those pretty much made up the bulk of what everybody wanted to discuss what people wanted to argue about uh and if that that's one of those things where it's like we have been flooded the the zone of research and discussion for this event is so full it is so full of stuff And then along comes architects and engineers for nine eleven truth. Right. And their whole focus on challenging the official collapse explanations relied on nano thermite theories and research. Um, they, they always said they were calling for a new investigation, but I never really saw that.

Like, did that, that was one of the like long poles in the tent, right? Like we just want another investigation. which was really interesting because then along comes Dr. Judy Wood, who does an investigation of her own and actually submits, um, uh, what do you call that? A, a TCAM or, uh, there's a certain kind of, uh, court case that she submitted on that. Um, and boy did the internet blow up with uh picking sides on that one and and all that stuff and um she has a dramatically different explanation of the physical destruction of the world trade center and on that one the questions surround the amount and condition of the debris a process that she's called dustification material effects, vehicles and surrounding damage, seismic evidence. She talks a lot about Hurricane Erin, which was not discussed hardly at all in other dives into this. unusual unusual physical observations and a hypothesis on exotic technology like directed energy right and then the disagreement became more than just a scientific dispute didn't it Yeah.

Here I'll give you – here's like – this is what, Newsweek or something. Here's like the mainstream. Here's your mainstream. Here's the update. Here's what your government is willing to do for you. They released some – they declassified some files. Sam Channing was reporting on it earlier this evening if you want to see any details about it. But they're out there online now. I think it was like seven different files that you can – there's a collection oh sorry seventy one how many of them are there seventy one files i don't know a hundred and one pages worth of files out there but um according to the associated press these files don't appear to break new ground on the planning or the attacks of the united states or the u.s officials understanding of how they had unfolded but So if you'd like to waste your time with a hundred and one pages of new documents that tell you absolutely nothing.

So you can print them out and add them to your version of your nine eleven commission report. Go ahead. But yeah, it's on you. I don't advise it. Fill your boots. Absolutely. There's nothing coming out of it except some interesting paintings from George Bush. That was fun. Oh, the bathtub finger paintings? Yeah, they look terrible. He's actually doing paintings. I dropped them somewhere. I don't know. Because he did a painting of the famous picture, the one where he got the message, the one here in the above, the top one right here. So this guy actually did a painting of this. So hopefully I'll find it. But while I have this up here, did you know that these two pictures were looking at or taken by the exact same photographer? Isn't that interesting? Mm-hmm. The bottom picture, of course, was from Butler, Pennsylvania. We all know what happened there. Yeah, the guy who took some of the more famous pictures that day is the same person who took that famous picture above.

Coincidence? You decide. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but now so Bush is running around doing like Hunter Biden-style like Crayola paintings. Yeah. Hey, man, moving art is a great way to make money in your retirement or political banishment in Hunter's situation, I suppose. But he's making a comeback, right? Hunter's making, he's on the comeback. Yeah, I got the, here's the paintings. Let me, I'm going to drop the link here on my computer and then I'll share my screen so you can see these. They're quite good. They're fantastic. There it is. See what I mean? paint is this one that is it's crazy to me what was the other one that they shared here this is from oh yeah there you go the the collapsing towers turning into dust or whatever right yeah wow all right so according to the post from polymarket uh former president george w bush shares paintings he created for the I don't know how that's supposed to make me feel, man.

Goodness gracious. so uh you know back to the squabble there you know from those years it became sort of a in the end you know in hindsight it became sort of a useful case study in how alternative research communities behave you know you got to see this whole competing interpretations of evidence researchers becoming invested in their hypotheses the gatekeeping uh was pretty unhinged there was a lot of drama around the gatekeeping a lot of uh appeals to uh credentials and authority that were a little overblown in some people's cases there was a lot of tribalism and ridicule I indulged in a little bit of that myself to be quite transparent, but it was fun. A lot of character attacks and selective presentation of evidence and information overload. You know, that kind of stuff. Some of these cult of personalities have it coming to them. But anyways, that's another story for another day. So I guess that, you know, kind of led me to the question, like, can an anti-establishment movement create an establishment of its own?

You know what I mean? Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, another rhetorical. I think we know the answer. Yeah. But back to what I was saying in the intro there, as far as evidence, interpretation, and certainty go, one of the most important things lessons from researching nine eleven is that evidence is not interpretation right and an observation can be real without the proposed explanation for that observation necessarily being correct and that seems to be sort of the you know the big Sort of like a acme hole that was laid down in front of us by Wiley Coyote back in those days. And we saw a lot of instances where multiple hypotheses would attempt to explain the same evidence. And I think that's when a lot of the burnout started happening for a lot of people. And that's something that we're still dealing with today. I mean, we were talking about that last week on the show as it pertained to the woman that's charged with killing her children.

We're barking up that same sort of, we're falling in that same Acme sticker hole on the ground. And the politicization of said narrative is really, that's the problem. It doesn't have to be a right-left politicization. It can be anything now. It can be males versus females. It can be identity sub-politic A versus identity sub-politic B. There's this consistent obsession about one thing versus a second thing, and it's always just the two things, right? Mm-hmm. Is there any other groups or organizations that are obsessed with the whole idea of black versus white displayed or represented in the checkerboard chessboard? Oh, that's right. There's more than a handful of them, aren't there? Yeah, that's what they use. I mean, this is a very useful tool, black versus white, left versus... right up versus down whatever north versus south west versus east blue whatever you know what i mean it's just like it's too freaking easy and we just we we i think humanity needs to like wake the f up and realize this stupid game that they play on on all levels with all the things and and realize well wait a minute there's ultimately behind the scenes there's something else going on here with uh there and there's always more than just two options people we should we We should probably explore that.

I mean maybe – how would this country be if it wasn't just two dominant parties? What if we worked something out where it's like there's three or four or five or more? What would that look like? I don't know because it's never going to happen. Yeah, it would be very easy to sculpt that in a way that would force actual representation. Well, we can't have that because then the powers that be wouldn't have any power and they wouldn't have any control over us. Wouldn't that be wonderful for us and terrible for them? It'd be chaos, cats and dogs, right? And we're not anarchists. We don't want chaos, right? No, please govern us harder, daddies. So again, multiple hypotheses can attempt to explain the same evidence. And an unexplained anomaly does not automatically prove a particular alternative theory. That's another thing we have to keep in mind there that we discovered in all of this. And on top of that, likewise, identifying weaknesses in an alternative theory does not automatically validate the official explanation.

And I think that's where a lot of people fall off, you know, say, Oh, a weakness has been identified in ABC alternative theories. So the official state explanation must then be true. You know what I mean? There's, there's a logic cliff that happens here that a lot of people fall off if they don't follow all three of those. Those people never read Sherlock Holmes growing up. That's right. No, no, not even Nancy drew. so there you go yeah any of those things yeah I like Hardy Boys. Hardy Boys were kind of cool, yeah. Didn't they do crossovers in Hardy Boys? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So this whole experience, I think, for us, for me, brought a very critical skepticism where it was like I just started questioning all sides. you know every every facet of it possible is like okay i gotta stop and be critical of this otherwise i'm falling in the wiley coyote acme hole um and stuck in a cul-de-sac on this and then all of a sudden it becomes an ideology or an institutionalized belief in your head so you've got government narratives you got institutional investigations you've got mainstream journalism alternative journalism independent researchers experts debunkers activists and then it gets sticky because you get into uh your own one's own preferred sources or one's own conclusions and that's where you really end up looking in the mirror and stuff like that but you have to be skeptical on all those fronts Which was a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people that really came up in the early alternative media and hoped and assumed that everybody had the truth in mind.

The honest to God, factual truth in mind is what they were questing for. So never marry your hypothesis. Can that be attained? I mean, from any one single individual at this stage in this society, in this environment? It's not looking that way, man. Maybe we should all work together, right? Towards a common goal. Wasn't that the whole point from the beginning? What happened? That's what we thought, man. Let's get together. Kumbaya. Wake people up one at a time. La-di-da. I mean, it's getting even more difficult. I mean, I mentioned the proliferation of the internet and social media, but now it's a thousand percent worse now because of AI. These stupid effing chatbots and now those things are brainwashing everybody and people are having... full-blown psychosis and or sexual relations apparently and having children depending on who you talk to with their chat bots now i mean it's just it's getting absolutely insane you laugh you think i'm kidding but anyway yeah people are nuts right but it's not it's not going to help in this type of thing i mean especially you know because people Because obviously there's a problem where like the more of this you encounter, the more you become distrustful of human beings and other people in general.

And there's already this natural, bizarre psychological tendency to trust machines for some street reason. It's a thing, I guess, allegedly. Maybe it's because we think they won't be biased, but... Well, we should probably be very careful thinking that now, shouldn't we? Because these things are trained on something by somebody somewhere and they can very well be influenced. And I mean, it's just like, are you stupid? You can be like, oh, well, it's got to be true because Grok said so or Chachi PT said so. And that's just there's a lot of that going on. I very rarely see anybody pushing back or doing any of their own research after they get their answer from their chat bot. And I'm very disturbed by it and very concerned. I know. I know. It's crazy. It's like you don't marry your hypothesis because the objective should be the understanding of what happened, right? The objective is not defending the explanation we already chose, right?

So you got to leave room for that. And the deeper lesson of the nine, eleven rabbit hole, you know, getting back to what I said in the beginning also is the understanding of how information works and where propaganda slips in, you know, information designed to influence perception and or behavior. And it was also a big eye opener. for information designed not merely to persuade but to agitate mobilize and polarize we've seen a lot of that and that has become something now that is just it's like inherent in the the news cycle in the media cycle in the social media cycle in the podcast algorithms it's like there's this whole upswing of information that really does seem like it is designed to do exactly that to mobilize people uh because i think that's probably one of the biggest experiments in the over you know the larger view here is well if we i could i could imagine a government like this a system a beast system technocrat system like this looking years ahead and saying well If we control the narrative, and then we can weaponize it against the people to demoralize them, confuse them, make their lives harder, get them to accept less freedoms, all this kind of stuff...

Then we can use it, right? We can see who will actually leave their house or who will actually start sending FOIA requests and asking for interviews. You know what I mean? The data collection and surveillance that we talked about earlier all of a sudden becomes... useful to them like it's a it's a very hegelian right create create a problem which is you know making a shady narrative and controlling it understanding that the reaction by many people is going to be to rebel against it and now it's like we can pump via the cybernetic interface the uh that agitprop sort of feeling. It just organically mobilizes and polarizes certain people. Obviously, there are people with good hearts and good intentions that want to do American things and change policies and that kind of stuff. You've got those kind of people. But then you've also got the vast amount of schizophrenic lunatics online who are just looking for rage bait uh you know to to fuel the fire there so there's just some of them aren't even human right they don't even get us started on the bots um Yeah, so we've got a lot of that, learned a lot about Agitprop, and that has evolved and gone much more technologically oriented.

We've seen the gatekeeping, the controlling of information and arguments that are considered legitimate enough to enter the discussion, right? A lot of that over the years, gatekeeping is alive and well. Then there's the misdirection, directing attention toward one issue while another receives little scrutiny. There's so many ways to do that. And I mentioned earlier the zone flooding. Just the after effects of nine eleven themselves are a zone flood. Just the amount of things you have to be skeptical of when reviewing it, a zone flood. And of course, then there's the false binaries, which kind of all circles right back. The snake's eating its tail right here. It's not official story or conspiracy theory. It's not government or truth movement. Reality can be substantially more complicated. And it really, really feels like That is something that is still being pressed. That's a lever that's still being pressed on us.

I mean, look at Charlie Kirk one year later. Look at what that topic alone has done to MAGA. Never mind the Jeffrey incident. Never mind the wars. That one incident, look what that has done. so it's like you're either with the conspiracy theory people or you're with the mega people that's what the government would have you say that's what but which which conspiracy theory people oh yeah see there goes all that again right yeah well we're you know so many different flavors of that too subdivided sub genres absolutely so i don't know again you know just remind everybody at the same time we're all forgetting or choosing to ignore that we have a common enemy yeah but anyways yeah exactly so what nine eleven what do you think nine eleven taught us about reading the news ruckus don't don't just don't Yeah, no. You'd be very careful, I guess. I don't know. That actually is a good point because, wow, I think otherwise I probably would have just been generally trusting the news a lot more than I do currently because it's been a long, long road there to discovering that the vast majority of news is either straight-up propaganda or it's just paid advertisements.

It's wild. Yeah. Right, and it kind of goes back into the William Cooper quote that you close shows with, and I made a little list of things like this, and I think just working with Patrick Henningsen and Twenty First Century Wire has taught me a lot about this kind of line of thinking also. There's sort of an inherent... noise in my head that stops and and makes me think about some of these things when reading news watching news listening to news whatever but one of the first ones i took away was go as close to the primary source as possible So many things. Remember before it's news, Ruckus? I think you and I both posted on there back in the day. That was about as far away from the primary sources you could possibly get. That's for the old-timers out there. I wonder if that site's still around. It is, and I still have an account, apparently. I still have articles posted there. Go figure.

That's amazing. Another one was separate reporting from commentary, which can be difficult and maybe even more difficult in the in the tick tock news era, in the new shorts era, you know. Separating observation from inference. A lot of inference going on. And remembering to know what we know and know what we don't know. That's a big one. Original documents, looking at original documents, comparing like this is nine eleven's an interesting case for this. If you compare the spontaneous reporting of the time with later accounts, that's that's always really interesting and something to keep in mind when reading news or whatever. Be wary and watch for synchronized terminology. When you see synchronized terminology being used. You really got to raise the red flag. And then one of the really big ones, notice emotionally loaded language. So much of that is used against us in the news cycle. And one of my favorites that we've seen so many times, especially in the Daily Shooter program reporting, look for information that disappears from subsequent reporting.

Oh my gosh, that's one of my favorites to watch. You can make long lists. What's that? Or changes. Yes, yes, exactly. Disappears or changes. especially and then after that especially when you see those the next one is look at what gets repeated because a lot of time what gets repeated in the in the longer term is what is basically on you know been replaced by things that have disappeared or changed or sometimes you'll see a change which is a which is a evidence smoking gun a red flag that you might be dealing with again propaganda that's that's one of the the hallmarks of that it's the repetition absolutely absolutely and you could go back to uh some sketchy world war ii people to find some quotes about that i'll let you folks we don't use their names here yeah you folks can do your own research on that um and also you're looking at what gets repeated look at what doesn't get repeated A lot of times a nugget of truth will come out and it just, you know, falls down the memory hole.

But maybe it's worth repeating. Another one when reading the news, don't mistake repetition for independent corroboration. You hear it over and over and over again. Yeah. And of course there's the credentials thing. We talked about that a little bit earlier, but not mistaking credentials for infallibility. Um, and also there's the matter of institutional consensus. Institutional consensus is not proof. That's a tough pill for some people to follow. Um, And also, I guess another one I'd add is don't mistake anti-establishment claims for truth simply because they're anti-establishment. I think a lot of people fall into the whole just outrage of it all and decide they're so anti-establishment that anything they hear that's anti-establishment must be the truth. Guys, the government has been lying to us. The sky is not blue. It's really purple. And I have the proof. yeah follow me at the sky is purple.com buy my coin yeah there you go so yes i guess the the wrap up on what we learned about reading the news following the news is you know it used to just be question authority when i was growing up it was like okay some of the the generation before me told me to question authority i'm gonna do that But no one told me I had to find out my own way how and when to question alternative authority, right?

Because you end up in a situation like that. And then you have to question your own certainty. That's always a tough pill to swallow for people to can be. I noticed you didn't question the person telling you to question authority. It gets meta. It definitely gets very meta. yeah so you know i i feel like we we took i think a lot of people took the the methodologies that we're talking about here the skepticism that we're talking about here away from the nine eleven experience and you know the same analytical habits begin applying all over the place, right? Like we talked about Iraq. You see all this stuff there, emotional framing, anonymous officials, government sources, full-on war propaganda, intelligence claims, and of course the weapons of mass destruction, right? We took that into Libya and Syria, in particular on Sunday Wire, the humanitarian intervention narratives, atrocity reporting, regime change, intelligence ops.

All the geopolitical propaganda that was going on and the Western media framing being so different from everything else. We took these same tenets on this show and on Alternate Current Radio into the land rights debate and the federal power disputes. We were looking at the Bundy Ranch episode, looking at the Malheur incident in Oregon. you know the trying to find like the difference between events on the ground and the national media narrative constructed around them we did a lot of work on that and we discovered so many anomalies and we took the same philosophy into the daily shooter program which is essentially our branding our way of saying that there are recurring characteristics that we find in the reporting of certain mass shootings. You know, we've spent a lot of time working on that. I don't really want to go into it, but you know, there are certain hallmarks there that you have to use the same kind of scrutiny for.

And then. Twenty twenty comes along. covid nineteen eighty four happens and boy at this point we're primed for this we know propaganda in real time when it's being fed to us we're sitting there questioning institutional authority we're questioning scientific uncertainty We're questioning all these changing recommendations. We're asking why censorship is so extreme under this event. We're questioning the statistical framing, the testing framing. We're looking at all the experts disagreeing. And then around twenty twenty two late twenty twenty one, we couldn't help but notice the politicization. Happening of this medical event, if I can boil it down to that. The known wolves. All these factors. That one was for the daily shooter phenomenon. And then there was the social enforcement of the narratives. That was particularly disturbing with COVID. Social enforcement of the narratives, my goodness, neighbor on neighbor, grocery store on shopper, hospital on patient.

So, you know, we applied this, what we learned there that basically everything, you know. And here we are, twenty five years later, man, twenty five years down the road. What a weird journey. And this and this in this last week or so, we've seen Mamdami come out and you know expose stuff about the air quality and you know the suffering and long-term injuries and deaths of people that worked out there that were there um i saw i don't know who put it out it might have been cbs or one of the big ones put out interviews with the grown-up like some of the kids that were there in the classroom being read to by president bush at the time like they interviewed some of those people got their takes on it Think the teacher from that classroom from the picture of the George Bush getting the message in his ear is a politician now Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. But a lot of stuff out there. And, you know, like UK Column had addressed it.

They had Patrick. They had Ryan Dawson. They had Basil. You know, some big events going on. They had Basil versus Ryan Dawson. Basil versus Ryan Dawson. Yeah. I've got some people asking me how to get the tail end of that discussion. I'm working on it. I'll let you know if we can find an available link for that. But. Man, it just – it's weird this year to see, especially in the mass media, to see so many – there's even a new – I saw one. It was like a new documentary coming out, and it was like – I think it's called like Twenty-Five Frames or something like that. It's like there was a camera – I don't have the name of the director in front of me, but he did a short thing on a news hit and it's going to be on one of the streaming services. And there was a camera that some firefighter pulled out of the dust and it had twenty five photos on it that had been undeveloped or unreleased for all these years.

And this guy finally got a hold of How it is this guy gets chosen? How does that work? The FBI is like, oh, would you like to do a documentary on these? I'm not really sure. But yeah, he's gone and tried to... It seems very milquetoast to me. I haven't watched it, but he's went and tried to find the people that were taking pictures of, the locations where pictures were taken, tried to find out whose camera it had been, and this kind of stuff. But apparently, the interesting thing I saw about that was that There's more than one of those. There's another set of photos that apparently, I can't remember the researcher or journalist that's doing this, but someone's been FOIAing for this set of photos for years and years and years and is now in a lawsuit trying to get some of these photos released. And the FBI is claiming they don't know where they are now. So it's like, how does that happen?

Well, there's another pattern we've seen before, them losing stuff, deleting stuff, whatever. But I think there's a new – I can't find any information on it right now. I'll have to do some digging. But there's a new – there's younger people who have now gotten interested in this, and there's a new documentary or something coming out soon or was just released involving an investigation from somebody who's fairly new to all of this that found an interesting connection between Epstein and a lot of the events of nine-eleven and some of the key players. which I found to be very interesting and I would like to check out, but I can't remember who it was or what the name of the docuseries is. I know where people can find it. James Corbett mentioned it in that thing this morning. Did he? Okay. I've heard multiple people mention it other than just James, but thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, I'm sure there's probably a link on his video, but at the very least it's rather short.

I think it's only like twenty minutes long or something like that. So it's near the end. I think he shouts that out and talks about it. But, you know, it is it is cool and interesting to see the younger crowd, you know, picking up the torch and, you know, making FOIA requests and making documentaries and stuff like that. So. Yeah. Keep it up. And then, but here, okay, here's one other strange new phenomenon that I had not witnessed before, but we're going to experience, have to deal with far more. Like it's going to get weird. It's going to get weird. I mentioned it earlier. There was that video, the Fox News four-part series about the Israeli Mossad connection thing, right? And there are people who were not already familiar with that. But I remember that. I mean, that's real. Those are real news reports that really effing happened. I remember them from back in the day and everything. This isn't legit.

But now they're like, since it's new to people, they're like, they think it's fake. They think it's AI. They think it's deepfake. So we're going to see a lot of these re-emerged old clips and videos, and it's just going to be, ah, no, man, it's just AI. You know, they could fake that. Like, you know, hey, Grok, is this real? And what if Grok says, oh, no, you can see here, it's the telltale sign this is a fake video. See, ha-ha, it's fake. We're going to see a lot of that moving forward, unfortunately. Yeah. yeah i think you're right man um that's just gonna get more and more convoluted uh and or the other thing too is they could we could see a lot of these things that we thought things might change in real time for us because they could be adding things to things we could be re reviewing some of this footage that we've seen a hundred times over like now wait a minute now there's no jumpers this time just using that as an example or whatever you know what i mean and start really messing with people they're like oh it's the mandela effect you they you think i'm they love to mess with people they just want to absolutely shatter everybody's reality so that they don't know they're up from their down and all of this stuff and you know to a degree you look at what's happening right now in in politics and and everything and it's like wow is this all being done on purpose to just destroy or erode all of our trust is is this our new nine eleven is this the towers coming down is this This broken two-party system, this bipolar system that we're bitching about right now, are we witnessing its demise?

But is it a controlled demolition of some sort? Who knows? Yeah, it's so strange because here we are, twenty-five years later, and nine eleven is unusually visible this year yes it's a major anniversary twenty five years but like we're we're pointing out here we've got new documentaries we've got old footage surfacing we've got archival broadcasts even being shown uh new interviews government records um it's in your youtube recommendations it's in your youtube recommendations that is one thing i would not have seen coming is the overton window opening up to nine eleven being like top tier in youtube recommendations this is traditionally something that has been sort of a a dark corner on youtube and then you're seeing social media retrospectives and new alternative investigations and new uh debunking content i even saw some debunking content um mainstream like commentaries very strange um and where we're at right now for people who lived through september these images are, are memories, but for an entire younger generation, they're historical media, you know, getting back to what ruckus was saying, they're, they're, they're media about history.

And that kind of bumps up against something that we talk about here on the show a lot, which is what happens when, when history becomes algorithmic content, what happens when things can be changed in real time, change, deleted, whatever, like, I don't know, man. The whole two thousand one versus twenty twenty six is it's hard to even compare them like then and now. And the older I get, man, I'm not going to lie, I have trouble remembering last week. So that's not going to help. Yeah, man. Hold up. I think, let's see, someone might have found the documentary you were looking for. Oh, yeah, there you go. Let me put that on screen since we're trying to shout it out here. thanks creative um nine eleven was an epstein job question mark that is the uh the new one that that james was talking about and it looks like it's up there on youtube's on the psy ops channel that's s i g h ops channel but uh yeah you know what that means hesher if it's allowed to be on youtube it can't possibly there's nothing in there that's true that way it's useful so why wait i'm just kidding right we got to go back yes as usual do all the things that you were describing and you got to do that with the videos too unfortunately and i love doing that actually that's one of my newer favorite things to do is i'll pause the video because nobody includes the damn links include links if you're showing stories on your youtube videos people please include links somewhere but i'm like freezing it trying to find the story so i can dig into it deeper and then do my research that way you know but it is nice that you're at least able to do that because if it was just radio and they could just be clipping bits and pieces from different reports and not even telling you where it comes from like what do you do with that you're just well you're just tickling your ears it's like entertainment it's not even being informed it's not helping you you're just wasting your time you know what i mean right right and that's one of the reasons i always try to make sure that i've got reference links on our show pages it's um it's an obscene amount of hours i've spent in the whatever many episodes we've done a boiler room to make sure that we have those i i don't have a hundred percent hit rate there's probably some episodes that are pretty lightly uh sourced but for the most part it's pretty exhaustive Pretty exhaustive these days and has been the whole time.

I mean, we have a website and all, but there's a lot of YouTube creators out there that that's their only thing on TikTok. And it's like and they cover all these stories and things. And it's like you're left on your own to just figure it all out. Yeah, and if you're watching it on TikTok or Instagram, it's much more difficult to pause it and go grab, fat finger that headline in or whatever you do to get your own sourcing on it. It's a real pain in the ass. So you end up just with a lot of trust me, bro, viewers. Maybe by design. Yeah, perhaps. That's a great way to memory hole something because literally that's what you do with your doom scrolling is mostly memory hole it if you're not linking it and sourcing it and stopping and thinking about it and all this other stuff. But back to the media reality, the mass media, let's call it the mass media cartel reality. We're just the mass media reality.

In two thousand one, we had CNN, Fox Network Television, radio, newspaper we had uh essentially millions of americans watching the same footage at the same time compared to now is a very centralized information environment now we have the algorithmic reality youtube x tick tock podcast telegram independent media recommendation engines, AI-generated content, search personalization, AI summaries. Ooh, that's a big one. They just take over everything. Personalized news feed. One person receives memorial footage. Another gets controlled demolition material. Another gets debunking videos. Another gets intelligence history documentaries. And someone else gets geopolitical analysis. Another person gets conspiracy content. Um, and most just get memes probably. Uh, and you know, someone else may get AI generated, uh, misinformation, right? Same event, different realities. Like could September, even produce a unified national experience today.

I wonder like if it were to happen today. Highly doubt it. It would be insane. I mean, look at Charlie Kirk as the example. I was about to say that. Like the event, I think, would immediately fragment into millions of competing information environments. What do we do with this? I think we're basically Dr. Strangelove, man. We just ride it. Ride it all the way to the ground. You know what we should do is we should get together once a week and talk about this stuff. Maybe that's how we survive. Yeah. Maybe we should have it in a public forum of some sort, too. Or in the very least, we should hang out together, a small handful of us in a smoky boiler room somewhere with some podcast mics set up. Hey, there you go. Hey, that's what we're doing right now. Because what else can you do, right? Yeah, I mean, seriously. Don't tell me we're going to get everybody on the same page and start waking people up and holding people accountable because I've already been sold that bridge, and guess what?

It doesn't work. It doesn't work. And then, you know, let's also discuss the war on terror. Twenty five years later. So September eleven created the political language. I think that remains enormously powerful. Look at words like terrorism itself. Homeland security, national emergency, existential threat, preemptive action. You're either with us or against us. Didn't Bush say something like that? I think he had a similar one. You're either with us or you're with the terrorists, right? And then what happens? Well, we saw this in COVID emergency powers turn into institutions. Temporary security measures become permanent infrastructure. Look, here we are looking in the rear view mirror. Twenty five years later. Yeah, there's that Patriot Act still there as permanent. What about interconnecting foreign wars? Ooh, boy, we're really seeing that one. Normalizing surveillance. Check, check in that box.

Kind of makes me wonder when remembrance becomes political persuasion. Or when a historical analogy becomes propaganda? Or at what point does security become control? And of course, another rhetorical, what emergency power is going to voluntarily disappear after the emergency ends? So, strategy of tension extended. We're still in it, and the rise in technology and the information warfare has really made it untenable for many people's psyches. Yeah. Hey, shout out to Brent Howell, who just dropped a twenty dollar super chat. Thanks, Brent. All right. We just turned that feature on, so we appreciate you being the first person to test it. Our apologies if you're getting any live roll ads. We're really under the gun here financially, so anyone that wants to support is highly appreciated. a big shout out to our remaining patrons over on patreon and anyone that's dumped anything the swear jar at alternatecurrentradio.com forward slash support we really appreciate you guys um we're probably going to have to have a discussion about that in the coming weeks at some point we need to do a bit of a fundraising drive but uh start with the little things starting with the little things that we can do on our end like uh accepting the uh Payment program at YouTube.

Give that a shot. That was something that we were really not really eligible to do for a long time. But these days, apparently the Overton windows open enough for us to hang out and have this conversation. So thanks again there, Brent. Appreciate the support. Yeah, that's awesome. Looky there. Someone's going to match you. That's cool. Right on. Thank you. Creative accidents also. so ruckus how much of today's technological surveillance architecture traces its legitimacy back to september eleven do you think i mean it's crazy to think about what we had for surveillance before that and where we are now just twenty five years later Probably all of it, right? You would think so, right? Because of the whole creation of Homeland Security, that's the umbrella organization that's above most of the places that do surveillance. Well, I guess, I don't know. Are they the umbrella above the technocrat level, like Palantir?

I don't know. Maybe that's another discussion, but... Well, when you look at how the internet was created or how Facebook was created and a lot of these technological things that appear to be wondrous creations of somebody, some nerdy great American dream type person in their mom's basement or their garage, right? Yeah. They're all CIA intelligence, DARPA, military projects that are handed over to somebody. You know what I mean? So I would imagine that the vast majority of the things that we deal with today, probably even what we consider the internet now as it is today, is vastly different than it was before. twenty five years ago. I mean, it's not the same Internet. Today's Internet is not Internet from two thousand and one. You know what I mean? It's something and to a degree, I'm right. I mean, something has literally changed. It used to be HTTP, right? Now it's HTTPS. What's up with that?

I'm just using that as a simple example. There's lots of reasons for that, but why? We didn't have to do that before. So there's a lot of little, little, little, little things that have been going on. And then also, of course, Just throwing it out there, which may also be another adopted CIA creation depending on who you ask. But we have cryptocurrencies that emerged on the scene as a potential answer to some of these problems. If I'm not mistaken, that was in response to the Wall Street banking stuff, right? The collapse, the housing crash and all that stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. We didn't even mention the oh, wait, crash and all that like that definitely fits into this messaging that we're we're doing tonight for sure. So I would say that well, Where in two thousand and one, it was like. It was easier to control the narrative, the narrative was much more in your face. There wasn't a whole lot of different places for people to go with it now.

We're in that situation we just described there where it's like it just depends. It depends on the algorithm. Completely depends on the algorithm. And who you are and where you are, right? Like in twenty twenty six, it's. Information systems can like increasingly control which messages each individual encounters, whereas in two thousand one, it's like, no, this is the message. And that's scary to me. That's that's pretty scary. It's like it's nice to have options. But a buffet is not always the meal you want. Especially if you're on a diet, right? Yeah, right. This is a... I mean, that is an interesting point because they... But I mean, how much extra work is that for... Oh, well, I guess that's why they have the AI do it for them, right? The algorithms. It's the machines that are doing it. They don't... Because they can't. I mean, it was hard enough for them to try to control one master narrative and force everybody's eyeballs on it.

But now it's like what you're suggesting here and what we're experiencing is a personalized... like the the bubble the coon pod for mediocrity go away and baiting we all get our own personalized propaganda straight to the third eye right yeah beer bonged right into it and it's not necessarily the same as the what your next door neighbor is getting right that's but but we're all happily controlled and and living in our little coon pub bubble anyway yeah yeah absolutely Well, we've hit the two-hour mark here, Ruckus, so I say we wind this sucker down. Yeah, can you believe that? No way. Time flies when you're having fun, right? Yeah, it does. Any saved rounds, final thoughts, anything we may have missed on this topic that you want to make sure we get out here tonight, or did we pretty much hit it? No, we probably hit it. There's a lot going on. I mean, it's like... There's a lot of good stuff out there, as you pointed out.

I mean, it's allowed to be a thing, which is nice. So there's lots of neat things to explore if one so chooses. I've been having a good time exploring some of the classics, like Sam Chaney today played one of my all-time favorites, and you mentioned it tonight, the James Corbett, Nine Eleven, A Conspiracy Theory. I might watch that one or two more times before I close out my day-to-day. That one is so good. But again, you know, so I mean... But, I mean, do your own research. But look at this episode right here. I think it was what you laid out tonight, Hesher, without my jackassery, stupid jumping and making dumb comments that had nothing to do with what you were talking about. It's a very great outline and a perfect discussion for anybody, especially if they're new to all of this stuff. This is kind of a little bit of like a training course. If you don't know where to go next and learn, you don't have to do it the hard way.

There are people who have come before you and you can rely on standing on the shoulders of giants who came before you and hopefully you'll do a little bit better than some of us did who had to figure it all out for ourselves. It's been a pleasure, Hesher, being able to figure out some of this stuff alongside the likes of you and our colleagues like Patrick Kenningson and some of our fine, fine audience members who've been there following us and supporting us from the very beginning. And we do love and appreciate all of you. And I always appreciate being here doing this. It blows my mind sometimes that I'm even here doing this. It's shocking. uh because i was just like you folks out there just listening to people like me and then one day for some strange reason i decided to pick up a microphone and next thing you know the microphone turned into a video camera in my face and a teleprompter and all that fun stuff who knew uh but i wouldn't change it for the world um and thanks again for having me uh love all you guys out there and i'm just i got nothing else so read everything listen to everybody don't believe anything unless you prove it for yourself using your own research practice out All right.

There he goes. Thanks. Ruckus was great having you with me tonight. So let's get out of here. Twenty five years later. Guess what? The questions still do matter. Not because we should remain trapped in September of two thousand and one. but because the lessons are written all over the present something i wanted to get across tonight lessons are applicable to your research on the wars the surveillance the propaganda the censorship the institutional distrust the alternative media ecosystem and now the algorithms capable of constructing a different reality for every person staring into a screen if researching september eleven taught us anything it shouldn't simply be to distrust government it should teach us something more difficult distrusting certainty checking the evidence Questioning the framing. Of course questioning authority. But also question the opposition. Question your own self.

Question your own side. And whenever somebody insists there are only two possible explanations, start looking for a third. You know? Same questions, just higher stakes. All right. Hey, that's it. Thanks for being here with us. And check us out at AlternateCurrentRadio.com. We've got Sunday Wire coming up on Sunday. Follow me on X at Hesher Media. If you want to support us, there's the link right there, AlternateCurrentRadio.com forward slash support. and i hope everybody has a great weekend and we will be with you again like i said on sunday wire check out the website for most recent episodes of the odd man out podcast mystical american patriot society the roundabout ruckus segment where you can find his appearances on weaponized news and anywhere else he shows up will be posted up there boiler room of course up there i owe you a couple show posts we'll get those out post haste, but, uh, we'll see you again real soon.

This is Hesher signing out for the boiler room. Uh, again, have a great weekend and thanks for being here with us. We'll see you next time. Go ahead and run, run home and cry to mama.